Proposal “fernando-cmo“ (Closed)Back
| Title: | Should Fernando Gutierrez continue to be the Chief Marketing Officer for Dash Core Group? |
| Owner: | realist |
| One-time payment: | 15 DASH (325 USD) |
| Completed payments: | no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining) |
| Payment start/end: | 2019-10-15 / 2019-11-14 (added on 2019-09-30) |
| Final voting deadline: | in na |
| Votes: | 42 Yes / 179 No / 316 Abstain |
Proposal description
Should Fernando Gutierrez continue to be the Chief Marketing Officer for Dash Core Group?
I recognize Fernando's earlier contributions when Dash was just starting, but things are different now. The IT Department of DCG improved significantly with Bob Carroll, because he is qualified CTO that was hired on merit. There are thousands of better professionals in the USA (where DCG is), and hundreds of websites and agencies that help companies connect with executives.
In my opinion, he isn't doing a good job and only got the role because of his early volunteering plus a personal relationship with Ryan Taylor. I understand the desire to reward individuals for loyalty and sticking around, but positions should be awarded for competence and re-evaluated periodically for performance. Build him a statue, name a feature after him, present a trophy, but let us move forward with someone new and get good Marketing done.
Rather than making any points, I'll let his results and the man speak for himself.
Watch him complain there's no money for Marketing with a $200k/month budget.
https://youtu.be/kaO5NzhHVNU?t=19
Received $260,000 USD on February 2018.
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/mrktng-feb-2018
Watch his plan to spend $650,000/month.
https://youtu.be/9exy8FfBt2k?t=7
Received $1.23 million USD on March 2018
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/mrktg-coregroup-032018
As far as determining the result of this proposal, a simple majority would suffice (like the logo and 2mb blocks). This isn't a vote on whether Fernando should be fired, but whether he should continue as Chief Marketing Officer:
More Yes's = he stays as CMO, more No's = DCG is instructed to hire a new talented CMO from the market.
Because those who criticize Dash are lumped together and discredited as trolls, I chose this question format and made it a net +10 DASH proposal (-5 + 15) deliberately, so that the Macrochip's and Gerhard's have an incentive to vote the topic and not to punish the proposer.
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XonPVopJRWeztrRXsfdFsN5p1fsEJ1fJau
I recognize Fernando's earlier contributions when Dash was just starting, but things are different now. The IT Department of DCG improved significantly with Bob Carroll, because he is qualified CTO that was hired on merit. There are thousands of better professionals in the USA (where DCG is), and hundreds of websites and agencies that help companies connect with executives.
In my opinion, he isn't doing a good job and only got the role because of his early volunteering plus a personal relationship with Ryan Taylor. I understand the desire to reward individuals for loyalty and sticking around, but positions should be awarded for competence and re-evaluated periodically for performance. Build him a statue, name a feature after him, present a trophy, but let us move forward with someone new and get good Marketing done.
Rather than making any points, I'll let his results and the man speak for himself.
Watch him complain there's no money for Marketing with a $200k/month budget.
https://youtu.be/kaO5NzhHVNU?t=19
Received $260,000 USD on February 2018.
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/mrktng-feb-2018
Watch his plan to spend $650,000/month.
https://youtu.be/9exy8FfBt2k?t=7
Received $1.23 million USD on March 2018
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/mrktg-coregroup-032018
As far as determining the result of this proposal, a simple majority would suffice (like the logo and 2mb blocks). This isn't a vote on whether Fernando should be fired, but whether he should continue as Chief Marketing Officer:
More Yes's = he stays as CMO, more No's = DCG is instructed to hire a new talented CMO from the market.
Because those who criticize Dash are lumped together and discredited as trolls, I chose this question format and made it a net +10 DASH proposal (-5 + 15) deliberately, so that the Macrochip's and Gerhard's have an incentive to vote the topic and not to punish the proposer.
=======
XonPVopJRWeztrRXsfdFsN5p1fsEJ1fJau
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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?
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DashForceNews does not cover the development of Evolution, at least on a monthly basis
The DCG product updates no longer includer updates on Evolution
Heidi does not cover Evolution
I do not have any source of information for Evolution
There are sources about Evolution, you just need to look for Dash Platform & Dash Core v1.0 topics. Like these :
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashpay-will-be-built-into-the-existing-native-mobile-wallets-on-android-and-ios.48201/
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-platform-side-chain.48396/
This poll is invalid anyways and there are now enough NO votes to deny it the 15 Dash funding. Thank you for helping with that by voting no.
So no, the masternode network can not fire specific employee directly.
Dash governance having some indirect control over its Trust Protectors , is totally different to stating Dash governance can fire specific employees.
The trust protectors can remove/replace individuals on the board of DCG if we (the network) believe it’s in the best interests of the DAO. A governance proposal can be used to guide the Trust Protectors on such an action, but this particular proposal is NOT a governance proposal.
Walter
Walter
And sorry for all the insults and shit You get.
We need to separate funding proposals and decision proposals.
How can we do that?
Feel free to reach out if you want to discuss ideas / collaborate.
Walter
Dash Treasury (or DGBB) is not an HR system to manage the personnel of Dash Core Group or personnel of any other company working for the network.
I'm abstaining until the ambiguity and weirdness goes away.
I would point out that this proposal demonstrates the censorship resistance of the Dash Treasury system. ANYBODY can put up a proposal for 5 Dash.
solarguy
"Because those who criticize Dash are lumped together and discredited as trolls, I chose this question format and made it a net +10 DASH proposal (-5 + 15) deliberately, so that the Macrochip's and Gerhard's have an incentive to vote the topic and not to punish the proposer. "
Abstain is a valid vote.
If anything, this demonstrate Dash lacks governance and the ability to respect users. I only wanted a new CMO and a better moderator, now I'm not sure I want to continue investing in this.
Oh, I read the proposal, but found the explanation lacking. Why would giving yourself an extra 10 Dash make the Macrochips and Gerhards less likely to punish the proposer? It seems pretty self evident that it would make them want to punish you more. A does not lead to B. So..no further explanation?
solarguy
Walter
You have to use your MN to do so... `gobject vote-conf <proposal-id> delete yes`, on each individual masternode. If enough MNs didn't want to tolerate this (I think the threshold is > 66%) then they can literally vote this off the network.
We don't have to put up with abusive actors in the system. So let's don't. Just shut it down.
A no vote should mean the body of masternode owners did not act.
Your poll has been invalid from the start by the way.
The question asked by this proposal is legit, and it gives us opportunity to vote on the issue.
It should be clear, the MNO network has the final say and can override or supersede decisions made by DCG.
And yes, if true, it is indeed problematic if some people get their position mainly because of a personal relationship, rather than performance, ability and results.
Having said that, i'd like to advise the PO in future to not ask for more than 5 Dash reimbursement for each non-funding governance proposal, as well as align a Yes outcome with the potential change introduced by the proposal, and a No outcome with the status quo, not vice-versa.
This will safeguard the meaningfulness of a raised question, and prevent the usual trolls to distract attention away from the raised question itself.
This means the polling part of the proposal failed already and is not legit in any way or form.
It should be clear, the MNO network has the final say and can override or supersede decisions made by DCG" - I am not familiar with the Dash DAO ever having the right to decide on whether specific members of teams the treasury may fund but not own retain employment. Dash Core Group for example is not Dash. It is a foreign entity with it's own decision making processes regarding team size and employees. That said, circumstances have changed in early 2019, thus specific oversights of the Dash Core Group can be potentially be sought via the elected Trust Protectors.
But if in contrast, the MNO network would decide about a technical aspect of Dash, DCG could refuse to obey by arguing along the same rhetoric. It's bs and you know it.
Legally speaking the vote of the DAO may have 'only' guidance character in such a matter. Agreed.
But it really doesn't matter, because ultimately DCG should not dare to ignore the wishes of the network but needs to respect, honor and obey the decisions made by the DAO (whatever they are).
Or assuming the risk of doing the exact opposite and face the potential consequences.
Trust Protectors either don't have the power to remove/replace somebody, will never come to a two-thirds agreement among them in such a matter, let alone dare to pull it off, even if (!) it were the right thing to do.
They are a toothless tiger.
There is no reason to argue the DAO should be too.
Walter
I have paid 5 Dash to ask the question to the Dash network, and I have offered to put Dash in escrow with Dash Watch. It is not written anywhere that a proposal has to be for X DASH, or that it has to be stated in the positive.
Also, be very careful with your comments. What makes you think you have the power to ignore a Governance proposal, or decide which one is legitimate or isn't? Dash is decentralized, not your pet project, Mr. Trust Protector.
Finally, there is no reason to call me a dickhead, to say I'm wasting MNOs time, and call my proposal ridiculous and meaningless. It's not surprising that you get along well with Macrochip. Someone in your position should be more respectful towards others.
1. Management of resources and employees are an internal matter for the directors of Dash Core Group Inc.
2. Only the board of Directors have the power to decide on how best to run the company. That includes HR management.
3. The Dao has no say on hiring/firing of individual employees of Dash Core Group Inc.
4. The trust protectors only have the ability to make changes to the board of Directors should the network decisively request change, via a governance vote.
If your question was “should we remove Fernando as a Director of Dash Core Group Inc.?” Then action could be taken by the trust protectors should the DAO vote decisively for us to do this.
At the end of the day, marketing at Dash Core and how it is run is an internal matter. It’s up to Ryan and the other Directors to manage.
Walter
The proposal is null and void. Try again with a 5 Dash payout just to cover the proposal fee, and then this will be a legitimate vote.
Yes does not mean no. Proposal owners can't just make up their own rules however they want.
NO = NO.
Abstain = Abstain.
You don't get to change the rules either. This is a decision question and not a funding proposal.
Those voting NO are voting NO to that 15 Dash and also most likely because this is all pointless, the DAO has no control over internal job functions inside DCG. The DAO only has control over budgets, and indirectly some control through the Trust Protectors.
Which makes this proposal both invalid and pointless as a polling mechanism.
For the reasons why, it is written on the proposal:
"Because those who criticize Dash are lumped together and discredited as trolls, I chose this question format and made it a net +10 DASH proposal (-5 + 15) deliberately, so that the Macrochip's and Gerhard's have an incentive to vote the topic and not to punish the proposer. "
I also offered to put 10 DASH on escrow on Dash Watch, since you guys are willing to ruin Dash's governance and make all this mess over $600.
I am not familiar with the Dash DAO ever having the right to decide on whether specific members of teams the treasury may fund but not own retain employment. Dash Core Group for example is not Dash. It is a foreign entity with it's own decision making processes regarding team size and employees. That said, circumstances have changed in early 2019, thus specific oversights of the Dash Core Group can be potentially be sought via the elected Trust Protectors.
Enjoy!
Walter
Also no sure what my elected roles have to do with anything?
Walter
Only logical thing to do is either ABSTAIN or vote NO to these kind of proposals and deny this person any funding.
Remember people, this is in no way a polling proposal !!
Is that enough for you to evaluate the proposal on its merits now?
You will also not get any Dash for any other proposal from me. In fact, from now on whenever i see your name attached to a proposal, it will be an instant NO (no matter what you are trying to "poll").
Wrong approach, wrong type of polling proposal, just wrong on so many levels.
I just hope at some point that the realist in you will understand, that this will not work.
Which makes this just another funding proposal for me. One i vote NO on.
it is a trick question
Vote NO = i do not want fernando to be CMO ; )
Vote YES = i do want fernando to be .... + proposal owner getting paid
Vote ABSTAIN = none of this matters as it will not pass !!
Which means the normal voting options for funding can be used (yes for funding, no for no funding, abstain if you dont have a preference for yes or no).
I don't want any Dash. If I gave 10 DASH to Dash Watch in escrow, just in case, will you shut the fuck up?
Why are you telling Masternodes not to vote on the proposal?
1. for the second time, the word is "tricky", not "trick".
2. "I am not tell them" should be "I am not telling them".
3. The question is only tricky because you lack basic english skills. It's a simple YES/NO/ABSTAIN question.
You are exactly the reason why I added +10 DASH. People like YOU and Macrochip are unable to vote on the topic, all you care about are personal attacks and insults.
I am pooling the network on Fernando. I spent 5 DASH on this proposal, 5 DASH on Macrochip's, and proposals need supermajority to be funded. There is nothing wrong with this proposal: it is a YES/NO/ABSTAIN question. I only want a new CMO and a better moderator for Reddit. Don't make me doubt the entire governance system.
Yes, No, or Abstain. There is nothing meaningless here.
I am polling the network with a YES/NO/ABSTAIN question. It's not about funding, just vote the damn question.
I appreciate the offer to send Dash to DW but I get the feeling that even if you were to do this, the outcome of this proposal is inevitably going to be skewed in a way that it would not have been if it had been done correctly. Others can interpret it as they like, but I am personally inclined to toss the result.
Something tells me you are not getting those 15 dash funded.
As far as I am concerned this is not a valid poll of the masternodes.
Voting ABSTAIN.
You're a Masternode Owner. You have a chance to vote to get a new CMO and you're not voting because of $600. If I put a new proposal, will you vote?
Now I am not a professional career counselor, but IMHO, given your forceful personality, and given your parasitic nature, you would make a great pimp.
Let's set aside whether or not individual roles should be voted on by the DAO and whether MNOs have enough visibility into individual performance from the outside to make this decision more effectively than the organization they work for. Let's also set aside whether it is a good idea to incentivize individuals working for DAO-funded entities to spend their time doing their jobs or instead make sure they spend their time promoting themselves effectively to the DAO to make sure the MNOs think highly of them. Setting those issues aside, you don't share any information here on why you personally think he's doing a bad job other than some budgets from early 2018 that never amounted to much once the price moved down rapidly in the spring of 2018 and fixed cost parts of them (like for conferences) were paid.
Is that enough for you to evaluate the proposals on their merits now?
I decided that the Dash proposal fees for both this proposal and your other proposal (together 20 Dash), is far better allocated towards budget proposals that put actual value to the network.
Which means i vote NO to free those proposal fees (20 Dash) up for actual budget proposals.
This means that masternode owners voting options (yes, no, abstain) can overrule any voting conditions / favourable terms in these proposals.
I only wanted a better CMO and Reddit moderator, there was no need for so many of you to attack me personally. You have called me a dickhead, said my proposal was ridiculous and meaningless, asked if I was dropped in my head as a child, said that I'm making a bullshit story, accused me of bing a scammer, and also called me a piece of shit and moron in your chat room.
You are not good people. This is circulating on Twitter and will likely be news in a few days and will cause millions in losses.
I ask that you all please maintain a professional image for and behalf of the dao so that way external users that may want to peak into the inner workings of the dao are not exposed toxic environment from historical proposals
I ask that you all please maintain a professional image for and behalf of the dao so that way external users that may want to peak into the inner workings of the dao are not exposed toxic environment from historical proposals
Incorrect, more No's in this case simply means your "proposal" will not pass the treshold and will not receive any funding. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Vote NO = i do not want fernando to be CMO ; )
Vote YES = i do want fernando to be .... + proposal owner getting paid
Vote ABSTAIN = none of this matters as it will not pass !!"
Except I will NOT be paid on this proposal. Ever. Proposals are only paid with SUPERMAJORITY. And even if I get paid, it'll be 5 Dash, which I will gladly donate to the DIF.
18/18 comments so far were ad hominem attacks on me. Great!