Proposal “change-X11“ (Closed)Back
Title: | Change of X11 mining algorithm because of ASIC |
Owner: | SnowHater |
One-time payment: | 5 DASH (180 USD) |
Completed payments: | no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining) |
Payment start/end: | 2016-04-06 / 2016-05-21 (added on 2016-02-29) |
Final voting deadline: | in passed |
Votes: | 40 Yes / 389 No / 0 Abstain |
External information: | www.dashwhale.org/p/change-X11 |
Proposal description
Please describe your thoughts about the proposal on the DashTalk.org. You can watch voting dynamic here.
Gist of the proposal
We propose a change of the current X11 mining algorithm in order to prevent inevitable centralization of DASH network through supplant of numerous and friendy community of regular miners- enthusiasts with a really narrow and exclusive group of brand new ASICs users. Mining centralization spoils Bitcoin network a lot nowadays, we don't want to repeat the same scheme here in DASH.
Why?
Mining in cryptocurrencies serves two main purposes:
1) initial incentivisation new users to come in and bootstrap the network growth;
2) securitizing the network (decentralization).
At the dawn of X11 implementation this algorithm was new and unique. It helped our network to survive in wild cryto jungles while it was a newborn child. It protected us from attacks of more powerful network miners like bitcoin miners and ASICs. But nobody can stop the progress from happening. So now we have new threat for our decentralization, ASICs. Invisibly and secretly they creeped here. Price of the ASICs that are publicly listed on the market for the moment (and therefore are already outdated in their performance) is 20 times higher than price of regular videocard (GPU). ASICs have 8 times higher hashrate per USD than GPUs have. Energy consumption per USD is pretty much the same. Next generation of ASIC will be more and more expensive, and that fact will squeeze out more and more ordinary miners from the DASH community. We described just few bad consequences of ASICs introduction. Let's give you more of them.
Harm of the ASICs:
- minimum 8 times decrease in the network attack costs for an adversary;
- long term price decrease, even with the possibility of temporal peak;
- decreased numbers of live human beings involved in the community, increased threshold to opt-in for ordinary miners, massive miners migration to ASIC-resistant currencies such as Ethereum;
- narrow group of people which secretly uses latest generation of ASICs will get up to 45% of all blockrewards from the network. They can supplant the rest of the miners (GPUs and old ASICs) gradually without even visible peak in the network overall hashrate;
- the same narrow group can easily buy new masternodes instead of dumping their reward on exchanges, so that they can corrupt the governance by lobbing its will,
- centralization of the network, increased possibility of attacks via raw force or financial seizure of big mining farms.
Pros for algorithm change
+ increased security, increased level of decentralization
+ increased popularity, new users to come
+ really huge resonance in the world of crypto. DASH could be the first cryptocurrency in the world which decides in decentralized way that it should become ASIC-resistant again. News titles could be something like that: "Collective mind of DASH proved to be smarter than ASIC manufacturers", "DASH didn't give up like Bitcoin", "DASH is stronger than ASICs", "DASH hits back" and so on.
Pool centralization
There is pool centralization threat also. It is not the object of this proposal though. Maybe in future we will bring this problem as an proposal too. Moreover, we hope that someone else will do it before us. Indeed, security and network decentralization should be a very hot topics here.
What do we want?
We want really detailed discussion of the problem within DASH community. We should consider all pros and cons of the possible solutions to it. Please describe your thoughts about the proposal on the DashTalk.org.
We have detailed publication on the topic here, but unfortunately it is in Russian language. Sorry for my poor English, I'm not native speaker.
Gist of the proposal
We propose a change of the current X11 mining algorithm in order to prevent inevitable centralization of DASH network through supplant of numerous and friendy community of regular miners- enthusiasts with a really narrow and exclusive group of brand new ASICs users. Mining centralization spoils Bitcoin network a lot nowadays, we don't want to repeat the same scheme here in DASH.
Why?
Mining in cryptocurrencies serves two main purposes:
1) initial incentivisation new users to come in and bootstrap the network growth;
2) securitizing the network (decentralization).
At the dawn of X11 implementation this algorithm was new and unique. It helped our network to survive in wild cryto jungles while it was a newborn child. It protected us from attacks of more powerful network miners like bitcoin miners and ASICs. But nobody can stop the progress from happening. So now we have new threat for our decentralization, ASICs. Invisibly and secretly they creeped here. Price of the ASICs that are publicly listed on the market for the moment (and therefore are already outdated in their performance) is 20 times higher than price of regular videocard (GPU). ASICs have 8 times higher hashrate per USD than GPUs have. Energy consumption per USD is pretty much the same. Next generation of ASIC will be more and more expensive, and that fact will squeeze out more and more ordinary miners from the DASH community. We described just few bad consequences of ASICs introduction. Let's give you more of them.
Harm of the ASICs:
- minimum 8 times decrease in the network attack costs for an adversary;
- long term price decrease, even with the possibility of temporal peak;
- decreased numbers of live human beings involved in the community, increased threshold to opt-in for ordinary miners, massive miners migration to ASIC-resistant currencies such as Ethereum;
- narrow group of people which secretly uses latest generation of ASICs will get up to 45% of all blockrewards from the network. They can supplant the rest of the miners (GPUs and old ASICs) gradually without even visible peak in the network overall hashrate;
- the same narrow group can easily buy new masternodes instead of dumping their reward on exchanges, so that they can corrupt the governance by lobbing its will,
- centralization of the network, increased possibility of attacks via raw force or financial seizure of big mining farms.
Pros for algorithm change
+ increased security, increased level of decentralization
+ increased popularity, new users to come
+ really huge resonance in the world of crypto. DASH could be the first cryptocurrency in the world which decides in decentralized way that it should become ASIC-resistant again. News titles could be something like that: "Collective mind of DASH proved to be smarter than ASIC manufacturers", "DASH didn't give up like Bitcoin", "DASH is stronger than ASICs", "DASH hits back" and so on.
Pool centralization
There is pool centralization threat also. It is not the object of this proposal though. Maybe in future we will bring this problem as an proposal too. Moreover, we hope that someone else will do it before us. Indeed, security and network decentralization should be a very hot topics here.
What do we want?
We want really detailed discussion of the problem within DASH community. We should consider all pros and cons of the possible solutions to it. Please describe your thoughts about the proposal on the DashTalk.org.
We have detailed publication on the topic here, but unfortunately it is in Russian language. Sorry for my poor English, I'm not native speaker.
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1) New algo is full hardfork. Therefore we will need to update whole network (miners, masternodes, payment-gateways, end-users). This can create very negative reaction and shove off users and change price.
2) In any case centralization springing up on mining-pools and there is no difference what device connected to pool (GPU, ASIC ot smth. else).
3) ASIC is more powersafe device. It have small operating cost. ASICs will be used by professional miners, who invest into mining for a long time. Also, they can't change mining currency because ASIC works for X11 only. ASIC miners more interested in network development. Also, a greate network hashrate gets a more security for network in theory.
4) If we change algo we lost a big count of investors and miners who spend a lot of money for buy or develop ASICs. It's not fairly.
5) New algo it's not a insure from new ASIC.
6) If DASH used only by miner and we must do everything for their it's a very sad end. If this were in bitcoin I suppose that I never open a bitcoin for me. DASH must have more different users not only in crypto-community for sucsessful progress, and as result we will have many different miners with different devices.
anyways i voted against this proposal eventhough i'm not invested in mining equipment (ASIC or otherwise) because
i believe ASIC brings more network security and is also the next logical step forward. We had two full years of CPU & GPU mining and have by now grown secure enough to handle ASIC miners. Its evolution in progress.....
"Next logical step forward" is not necessarily the right step. Bitcoin history confirmed it.
in BTCs: monopoly the Hashpower = monopoly 100% of distribution.
in Dash: it's ≠.
This is another valuable point in Dash ecosystem that have been established.
But again, pools are the problem too. Hope you can submit a proposal about it.
So whats next ? a poll on Bitcointalk ?
you should have stick to your 1st pole
Udjin made it very clear here:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/should-we-change-the-mining-algorithm-because-of-asics.8160/page-2#post-86192
(there is more to mining than just hardware , Pools are the key)
What a waste of 5 DASH ($20)
LMFAO - LOL
...say's it all.
Proposal(s) should not be used as a "discussion platform" - that should be reserved for the forum(s). Even the "poll" on DashTalk clearly states that "the people" will vote: NAY
Again, - - - wasted DASH.