Welcome!

How can a project who's priority is accountability, itself remain anonymous ?

Proposal Evaluation Committee
Link to Categorized and Prioritized List of Proposals here: https://goo.gl/qu2JsP

This proposal addresses many relevant issues, and suggests setting up an umbrella authority organization to deal with the following issues:

* Holding past proposal owners accountable? (Would be great, BUT HOW WOULD IT WORK?)
* Increasing the amount of high quality pre-proposals received? (Would be nice, BUT HOW WOULD IT WORK?)
* Subsidizing "Open Bounties" which have specific strategic benefit to Dash? (Would be great, see https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Dash-Bug-Bounty-Program-by-BugCrowd )
* Collecting expert analysis of specific Dash proposals? (Would be nice, see https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/official-pre-proposal-proposal-evaluation-committee.15247/ )
* Publicizing Dash Success Stories to win mainstream press attention? (Ok, but there are multiple concrete proposals in the pipeline doing this already.)
* Proactively soliciting updates from funded proposal owners and offering professional assistance when needed? (Ok, BUT HOW WOULD IT WORK?)
* Helping to launch "micro proposals" for small jobs with high ROI? (Ok, BUT HOW WOULD IT WORK?)
* Thorough vetting of new proposals to help separate the wheat from the chaff? (Would be nice, but again see https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/official-pre-proposal-proposal-evaluation-committee.15247/ )

As the commented list suggests, the individual issues typically stand for a standalone proposal, and there is nothing really bad with that per se.
Putting any centralised authority for or related to the governance is extremely sensitive and potentially dangerous act.
It is also extremely unclear how this authority organization could possibly work.

I really appreciate the feedback you've been giving on new proposals as they've come in, as well as the assistance and 20% subsidy being offered to new proposers who use the site.

I agree with some that you came on too strong in the beginning, but so did Amanda B. Johnson last year, and look how well she's turned out.

I hope and believe the same will be true of you.

Does anyone know shadowknight & krishnayogik? Can't find them on slack or forum. Same person?

It is widely acknowledged that ANYONE can make an account and leave comments on this site, Biltong. Even non-masternode owners, which according to YOUR forum profile -- which is lacking in a masternode badge -- may even be you.

I know that Noob ;) Way too poor for a MN I'm afraid - maybe in 10 years LOL

In a way your proving why this should be accepted

You can't trust anything you see on this site. Anyone could create several amounts of accounts and up/down vote comments and proposals possibly influencing the election.

'Proving'? Sorry - cannot follow that logic. "create several accounts" Yep - that's exactly what worries me, but @rango will be implementing a diplomatic solution soon ;)

After reading through the other proposals, this one seems to be the most needed one. Dash definitely needs accountability for granted proposals.

shadowknight - can't find you on the forum. When did you join?

You mean the dash.org forum? I've been around on dash.org / dashcentral for over one year, but I do not post much. And no, I am not krishnayogik.

strange - could not find a single post from you on forum, slack or reddit. Maybe the search engine is broken ;)

Well, I am not on slack or reddit (not yet anyway). And on the Dash forum I have a different handle (only 2 or 3 posts, though); I'd rather keep identities separate on different services for the moment. And if you are wondering, I have no relation to DashTreasure, I haven't even registered there yet (in fact I just found about it yesterday). I simply thought the proposal was good, and only after that began to read all the debacle...

All good Shadow :) - got your PM. Yep re 'debacle' - Pity

This is desperately needed service for dash so i am voting yes , guys the important thing is that your YES votes shows that system needs a big change

The marketing for dash is complete haywire at the best , we need focused and committed team not one of efforts whose ROI cant be measured methodically

Please vote YES to support the change

krishnayogik - can't find you on the forum. When did you join?

I support the fact we need to revisit marketing big time

I feel very strongly that a service like this is desperately needed in Dash, so it pains me a little to say I don't think I can support this proposal as-is.
I have no doubt that you and your team are very resourceful. However (and please don't take this personally), the thing I can't get past is that I simply do not trust you yet as a proposal evaluator, based on the fact of you remaining anonymous (plus no prior reputation in Dash or anywhere else for that matter), and based on the few opinion pieces that you have already published. The article about QuantumExplorer without having contacted him first is a red flag.

I would be much more comfortable if you would work with Biltong or one of the other proposal evaluation projects, than to do this all on your own using the site you created to push your own evaluations.

This is too important a function to get wrong, and an abundance of caution is warranted. However I fully acknowledge that we need something like this, so if there was an opportunity I would gladly support Rango to incorporate a masternode rating/followup system in DashCentral, or Biltong or some other more known entity to replicate this functionality on a separate site.

Troy, I agree this is needed, but not an extra site! We have way too many sites already. It's beyond a pain to try and read all of them. I skip half as is. Something like this should be incorporated in DC. I've got a full plate for a couple of months, but later if @rango has the energy, we can maybe come up with something... @rango - how's your motivation ;)

I think Dash Central is a fantastic site. Smart, functional & doesn't look dated at all.

I have a better idea. Rango why don't you view source on dashtreasury.org, copy and paste into this site. Dashcentral is terrible and looks like it hasn't been updated in years. Make this site better, please. It's getting worse by the day. Probably now doing Dash more harm than good.

Captain - can't find you on forum, slack or reddit. When did you join? Are you a MNO? Just curious ;)

Worse site, not updated, doing more harm than good ... Could you please elaborate?

I'd rather see dashcentral be updated to better show ratings on past proposal success and follow through.

I’ve debated whether I should post this, since it’s an obvious conflict of interest… But something is wrong.
Besides the fact that this Proposal Owner has ignored countless entreaties to reveal who he and his team are. Where he’s from? (What coin)??
There is also something else that worries me just as much. His understated aim seems to be, to get all proposals to pass through his website, where he can burn good community members and proposals (as he’s already done).
Is it his aim to replace the forum and DC? 5 Dash is nothing, but it could open the door to trouble.
I think MNO’s must look very carefully at this man, his team and his website’s motives.

I did not even know, they where anonymous ! I agree with you this could get ugly, to the point that I would consider taking up the roll myself ( I would obviously not remain anonymous in any way)

I would suggest to change the concept: instead ask for people to 'bet' on a prepoposal.

If pre-approved the betmoney will be used to redirect the proposal to central.

Deposit addresses managed by the site, will secure payout of the bets to investors and the funding is send to proposal owner.


This form I vote NO.

The site would then apply for proposal

You could collect more than only the 5 dash proposal fee.

If someone or more people bet, say, 25 dash for a certain proposal to pass, the total needed project funds will include 50 dash for payout to the betters and 5 for it's proposal.

In case it did not pass: return (total input - proposal fee) / participants ;

In the end this could be an incentive for MNO to "double down" their investment of time and money, if interested and willing to do so. Careless MNO won't even vote and just get their 8%.

There's a lesson here. My read is that Quantum Explorer had no ill intentions when the proposal was made. Further, I believe he still wants to complete the (everybody agrees) important documentation.

So here's the big lesson, people who have a proposal approved need to give regular feedback on how the work is progressing if it's a process longer than a month. Failure to give regular feedback almost invariably leads to assumptions that people just took our money. And the mixing of personal Dash with proposal Dash, that was sloppy and looks very suspicious. Regular feed back would have prevented this whole mess.

The second half of the lesson is that the community (including the new proposed Dashtreasury dot org) must make every effort to find out what's really going on before making those easy assumptions. Do we need better follow-up and accountability? Absolutely, we do.

We can all get what we want here.

I propose that Quantum Explorer gets 90 days to do the work or hire it out, with regular feedback about how it's going, no harm, no foul. He's a valuable contributor to the community.

And Dashtreasury dot org digs a little further next time with opportunity for feedback from the proposal owner. If they don't respond, then the gloves come off, and rightly so.

I'm still yes on this proposal.

Dashtreasury should have contacted him first instead for a statement

I'm voting no because I really don't like the way this is going. The reports are inflammatory and I think it's too soon to encourage Masternode owners to be so tight fisted with the funds. There are good people out there that could do so much for Dash, but they won't even try to get funding because they're afraid to be voted down. We don't even have people willing to step up and become fund managers for smaller projects for fear of being maligned.

What do you mean inflammatory? We're calling out people who didn't do their job. If that bothers you, then good. It should absolutely bother you that people are poaching money from the budget without providing value.

We're contributing our own time, our own money, and our own staff to get Dash back on track so it can reclaim its market position. We're delivering measurable results and asking for nothing in return. Other than complaining, driving away talent, and defending abuse of the budget, what have you been doing?

Excuse me? That personal jab at TanteStefana was totally uncalled for and it kind of exemplifies her point...

That's bull shit. Your "calling out" is slanderous, several people you slander are still in contact and keeping us up to date, and QE did NOT put those funds into a Masternode, like you said. QE is trying to find someone who will do the job, which is not easy. The way it's being handled on your site is asinine and immature. So no, I will not vote for this.

I agree with this guy. We should cut these guys alot of slack even if they don't do their work. It's not like anyone lost this money personally. It was free.

Your attitude I find to be completely deplorable. It seems you are saying to would-be scammers come and take Dashes money, I don't care 'cause it's not coming out of MY pocket. If you have a vote then adopt the attitude of a steward over these unique and precious assets and allocate them wisely.

I think he is being facetious toward my comment. It's one thing to keep an eye on the progress or lack there of, it's another to flame people with accusations and innuendo.

Can't this all just be handled on dashcentral.org?

voting no for now

I changed my votes to no after I viewing that you paid upfront for this video, which is a miss-representation of DASH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbgd0g5HWfY

Also the way you talk about quantumexplorer, is proper. DashTreasury is aiming to be important website, which should take allot more neutral stance.

I sincerely hope, this proposal does not get voted it, unless we have some proper neutral leadership, running this site. At this point I would even think about doing it myself if Dashtreasury.org is a must, I don't want projects of any kind especially with a status like this one to drag down dash.

*Sorry for sounding harsh, I am sure your heart is in the right place

Yea, he does seem a bit immature.

"-Thorough vetting of new proposals to help separate the wheat from the chaff." - I guess to do so you would try to check the identity of the proposal owner right ? Would you mind answering to the many requests below and on the forum about who you guys are ???

We explain the value (or rather lack thereof) of relying on government identities in a crypto world here: https://www.dashtreasury.org/identity.html

I don't care for this excuse. You've already sought to harm the reputations of others but you don't have the courage to put your own on the line. This is a juvenile characteristic.

I don't care about the government. The reason I ask for your identity is because you have no reputation at stake. If you are a fraud then you will suffer no consequences with whoever else you do business with now or in the future because you have erected a smokescreen, coming to us under an alias that no one else knows you by. Having something to lose is a critical incentive. You have not demonstrated that you have anything to lose if you fail to deliver, no reputation OR finances at stake (you claim to be a MNO but have not verified this either)

I might just add. If this Proposal was evaluated by the Proposal Evaluation Committee it would have got an immediate Red Flag according to the PEC guidelines (that was created long before this proposal owner appeared). We don't think it makes sense to pay people Dash that refuse to say who they are. No company in the world will do that!

I loved the idea at the beginning, but you have trashed my name without even talking to me first. Right now I'm marked as a DASH delinquent on your site, even though I work on DASH every day, and quite often not for money. I really feel like I'm dealing with a 5 year old, for example you wrote this article: https://www.dashtreasury.org/delinquents-bips.html, saying that I used that 120 dash towards a masternode. That's not true, I have always had 120 DASH outside of a masternode, I proved it in the comments section of your site but my name is still being tarnished (transaction 0d59a3cfa1c7e4555509e5fb06485e72255c8434d7106e956d8604e4f66c8a1a). I have contributed to core, evolution, made the iOS app etc. I'm now working without any funding on a project (because I believe it's best for me to get reimbursed after successful projects than actually ask for money before since it will be easier to gage how long the project took).

The funding in question is for 115 DASH for a bounty for bips (Which at the time was 7000$). I originally had 1 person who was going to do the bulk of the work, they flaked on me. Then I had another guy who tried and came back that he couldn't do it. So now it's been 2 months later and the actual work hasn't started. My proposal was clear and it's purpose was to set a bounty. The bounty is still up. I normally would just have left that bounty open until someone eventually took it. The problem is that the work is very hard and only a handful of people in the world can actually do it and even less that would want to.

I care about my name and honor very much so I really want to do what the masternodes voted for and what I believe to be right. I will stop my current project and start working on this in the upcoming 2 weeks. If I am unable to make significant progress on this by September I will send all funds to core.

Back to DASH treasury, yeah it's a good idea but it needs to done by mature people who knows how the industry works. It needs to be professional and not inflammatory as tante said, otherwise you are just being counterproductive. I've lost a lot of time dealing with this, time that normally would be spent working on DASH projects.

Yea have to agree with quantumexplorer while the basic idea is good you have to be a lot more careful about calling someone a delinquent. At the moment I would only consider the PlayAwards proposal to count as such.

yeah the budget system needs some work but to paint it as failed and needing to get back on track is just trying to get people to support this out of fear, just let daddy take over and everything will be ok.

many people have been working on similar proposals/pre proposals for months, this is just the first one to post a proposal in an attempt to jump ahead of the rest, pretty smart actually. but it's a land grab without going through the normal pre proposal system we have set up. it may be the better way to go about it if you are confident it will pass and/or you have lots of Dash to burn.
one problem i have is they do not seem to be open to working with the other similar proposals and are set on doing it their way only.
it will probably be best to have 2-3 of these review committees so no one committee has a monopoly on the direction of Dash. so i'm open to many different solutions including this one.

One of the interesting things about the blockchain is that you can't lie about the movement of funds (unless you mix them first, which you didn't). We've laid out proof that anyone can verify, tracking your coins from the superblock, to your payment address, to a masternode.

Aside from that, we don't even need a block explorer to see that you haven't delivered one single shred of work product! If you care about your name, your honor, and the greater good of Dash, it's not too late to do the right thing.

Fungibility.

If he received the funds in the same wallet as other coins, you can't use the movement of funds on the blockchain to prove that he used the 120 dash for a masternode. If he already had 1000 dash in his wallet and received another 120 dash from the proposal, when he created the masternode it might have used the input from the proposal which would NOT be a problem as long as he still has 120 dash left. It doesn't prove anything.

I'm not a fan of the unprofessional, inflammatory nature of your articles. It would be best if you researched before writing these articles, allowed another point of view or response from the owner of the project. However, I do like the idea.

Dash Treasury Review Committee Master Thread
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-treasury-review-committee-master-thread.15298/

Since the goal of this proposal is to 'gauge support', I have voted YES because the concept is very good, however quantumexplorer's comment raises a valid concern. Namely, that such a site might present too much subjective opinion and too little objective data or facts. Artificial standards of perfection, lack of context, and mischaracterization have to be avoided, or the site itself loses credibility.

I'll still vote YES for this proposal for the concept, but its implementation should be itself 'accountable' to objectivity. Let the MN's themselves weigh the data's significance.

This seems interesting. I don't appreciate the slander, however. I hope that you will apologize soon.

I am already helping you and playing the kindergarten cop, which is obviously needed. But please tell us your slack name, skype name and so on. We need to build a culture of communication in the future. Anyone who does a proposal has to register slack, skype etc. so anyone can be contacted anytime. So no one can hide from his/her proposal accountability and responsibility anymore.

I agree that transparency is vital in this initiative. Changing my vote to NO until anonymity is lifted.

Sucky graphics on this one. Did you make this site in MS Paint?

Sounds like a really good and thorough idea, definitely needed. The community has been talking about something like this for a while. A few questions:

1) How does the rating system work (addressed elsewhere in this thread)? Are they given at any time, or reserved for after the proposal's completion?

2) How are reviews conducted, and by whom? I'd like to assume that the ones currently on the site are brief mockups, because such an important task necessitates a lot of research, detail, and references, rather than simple editorial content.

3) Have you checked out the review committee yet? I know it's something that's meant to do pretty much the same function, so I"m wondering if there's overlap or if there's a way to combine the two projects.

Thanks again, and good luck with this, it's an ambitious project that's pretty well-needed here. Will cross-post to Reddit.

Thanks for the feedback! There's already some cross-discussion over on Reddit, but we'd just like to add that you bring up a very good point about the rating system that we still haven't figured out the best solution to. That is, should a proposal's rating be "locked" until a certain amount of time has elapsed? It clearly makes no sense to give a performance rating 5 minutes after the budget cycle closes. But then the issue of how much time is the right amount of time becomes a point to consider. The rating system is an area that definitely needs some refinement, and we'll be working to improve it. As always, of course, we're looking for as much input from the MNO community as we can get.

The obvious need for a system like this has been percolating for at least a year. And your particular proposal looks like an excellent manifestation of that idea. As part of my due diligence, I went back and read a bunch of your posts on reddit dashpay, and it is obvious that you have been interested in helping and promoting Dash for quite a while.

AND, I'm sure the community would like to get to know you and your team better.

Who are you, DashTreasury? Who will be in charge of this project?

I like this idea, and if you can be completely transparent with information, that'd be awesome.

Please resubmit with your real legal name and some information about who you are since you have no known reputation with the existing Dash community. Such a great irony isn't it considering what the stated goal of the proposal is? ""-Thorough vetting of new proposals to help separate the wheat from the chaff""

Sadly, I'm forced to vote no until this very important issue is addressed.

Two questions :

How do you calculate the performance ratings ?
How much of the budget proposals are grabbed from API and how much is manually entered ? Specially the pre-proposals could turn into a lot of work...

The ratings are just a simple 1-5 score based on the sum of ratings placed, divided by the total number of ratings received. So if someone gives a project 3 stars and someone else gives it 4, that would average out to a score of 3.5. Only masternode owners are able to rate projects, and our intent is that the rating will serve as a quick summary of how well the contractor lived up to the terms of the proposal. Was it completed on time? Was the quality good? Are we satisfied that the contractor fulfilled his obligations? Ideally, a more detailed analysis and summary will also be available to discuss the specifics of how it went and how things could be improved the next time around.

The blockchain contains a fairly limited amount of information about each proposal, including mainly just the payment amount, payment address, abbreviated project name, and URL to an off-chain description. If a proposal submitter submits his proposals through DashTreasury.org, we offer the option of linking a more detailed web based description to his blockchain entry, much how Dash Central does it. If the proposal originated elsewhere, our system makes an effort to grab his full description from the URL listed. If neither of those options are available, the submitter can "claim" his proposal page by signing a message with his payment address and copy/paste whatever description he's entered elsewhere. The pre-proposal system is completely off-chain, but we include an option to publish a pre-proposal into a paid formal proposal after the contractor and masternode reviewers are satisfied with its terms.

how to rate with more than one masternodes?

Not sure if it's just part of the initial site mockup, but a few brand-new proposals have already taking ratings hits. If it's just a mockup, that's fine and perfectly understandable, though I would suggest doing that for mock proposals, as it appears to have pre-judged actual proposals.

If it's not a mockup, then might I suggest disallowing ratings until after the proposals are completed? Masternode votes are great ratings for while the proposal is pending, and a rating only makes sense after the data is in. I'd hate to see people prematurely give a proposal a terrible rating that ends up delivering fine, and MNOs forget to change their votes.

I gotta say I highly agree on only allowing masternodes to rate projects. You need to think with Dash central what's stopping someone from creating 10 accounts to get themselves a good rating. Very smart move.

Some very good people behind this project. I highly support these guys, they definitely know what they are doing and are creating a great solution for proposal entries.

Would you or the other principle parties care to share with us their given legal names? I think it is highly likely they are all fine and skilled folks. However, massive scams have occurred by slowly built trust toward some anonymous actor. No other major contract has been approved by someone unknown, pseudonyms notwithstanding.

Having an easy-to-see way of checking on how proposals are going is something I've been looking for and I love the idea of pointing out "Dash Delinquents". Great idea for "Open Bounties" too. I also like the "Pre-Proposals" section - TBH I dislike looking through forum posts for pre-proposal discussion and this format looks better... the only issue I see is spreading out discussion too widely - we have forums, reddit, dashcentral, dashtreasury.... is there a way to aggregate all the info? Would the API from DashCentral work? https://www.dashcentral.org/dbin

Also, I'm still looking for a good way to view/organize proposal information/data. Dashvotetracker, Dashcentral, and your site still present them in a way that's somewhat difficult to view/understand IMO... I have some ideas - working on something myself just slow going :)

But yes, GREAT start overall! Just curious, how many people are on your team working on Dashtreasury.org?

Personally I would like to see this site incorporated into dash.org as treasury.dash.org

Great looking site! I did not know the "Dash Play Awards" thing ended up being a scam, I did not like it and did not vote for it.

Who are you?

http://verne.elpais.com/verne/2017/05/16/articulo/1494929471_843529.html

The article is in spanish but the title is clear "There will be no Play Awards [..]"

Love it. We really need this. Right now, we have no oversight, no tracking of follow-through. And we're beginning to get scammed. Case in point: those ridiculous ATM proposals. Voting "yes".

Hearing updates and providing some sort of accountability for funded proposals is key.

We want to thank everyone for the incredible support that's been coming in so far for this project! It's very reassuring to know that so many of us are in agreement on the need to take the functionality of the treasury system to a more professional and efficient level. We also very much appreciate the overwhelming number of people who have already contacted us directly to volunteer their time and expertise in moving things forward.

One of the fundamental weaknesses of a typical government is a lack of shared purpose. Town A wants a bridge, but they want Town B to pay for it. Town B wants a park, but they want Town A to pay for it. Even the individuals within a community have different needs and different ideas on who gets benefits and who gets taxed. Fortunately, that weakness does not and cannot exist in Dash. Instead, a very clear shared purpose is one of Dash's greatest strengths: We all just want Dash to grow more valuable and more useful. It's a goal that's simple and concise.

We're really encouraged to be working with so many great people in the Dash community and we look forward to making substantial contributions to help streamline Dash's amazing built-in mechanism for growth.

I agree with everything you say. Absolutly. Just 1 little esthetic remark: dash.org, dashcentral.org, dashtreasury.org, dashpay.atlassian.net, dashnation.slack.com... how many different websites to go? Let's make it finally like adults, guys. Let "Treasury" be just one of sub-domens on dash.org among every others we use as Dash DAO.

Well, it gets harder to run a site, either you have to do it all, or give out access to everyone. I don't mind lots of websites, but they should interlink to each other. And if a theme could be coordinated, that'd be even better :)

Bravo, exactly what's needed!

Great proposal. Definite yes. Is just what is needed right now. I'm thinking of ways I can possibly help out too.

Much needed. We need to learn from the past scam proposals especially. I will certainly not be voting for anything that is not verified in person by other MN owners or core team, when pertaining to things like sponsorship. Unless say a big company that has merit released a press release about said sponsorship.

How about you and martinrue get together and collaborate since you propose similar things.

While i am not sure what your goal with this Proposal is i like the WebSite and agree that we need something like this. So i am voting yes.