Proposal “DASH-Satellites-Demonstration“ (Closed)Back
| Title: | DASH Satellites Demonstration |
| Owner: | gilemon |
| Monthly amount: | 46 DASH (1025 USD) |
| Completed payments: | no payments occurred yet (12 month remaining) |
| Payment start/end: | 2017-11-18 / 2018-11-10 (added on 2017-11-13) |
| Final voting deadline: | in passed |
| Votes: | 102 Yes / 552 No / 125 Abstain |
Proposal description
IMPORTANT: the proposal was modified on 21/11/17 to double the bandwidth from 512 Kbps to 1 Mbps. This represents a 25 DASH discount on total price. See full details on the latest forum post.
Our proposal to the network is to increase the influence of DASH by transmitting the live chain from satellites around the world providing free access to the DASH network. It has the potential to open up a world of new opportunities for the use of DASH. There are vast areas of the world where the financial infrastructures are in their infancy, and this proposal is a step forward to create a globally accessible cryptocurrency.
The proposal contains significant research and development efforts that will lead to innovative solution in the distribution of DASH. No matter whether it is using other wireless infrastructure or means of telecommunication, the work involved in this proposal is a leap forward in reducing the cost of transmitting DASH chain data all over the world.
This demonstration provides 12 months broadcasting at 1024 kbps over Asia (equal to 105 GO per month). You can find the fully detailed pdf version of this proposal here:
http://nthinking.net/vrak/dash/proposals/Dash_Satellites_Demonstration_Proposal-v1.21.pdf
And the pre-proposal discussion on the forum is here:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/streaming-the-dash-blockchain-to-the-whole-planet-from-geosynchronous-satellites.17279/
DASH long-term benefits
Who are we
nThinking has extensive experience dealing with engineering projects and corporations. We currently work in railway, logistics and telecom industries. We would be very interested to work on such project.
Founded in 2007, nThinking is headquartered in Hong Kong. Our team of 5 engineers traverse the globe, with local presence in France, the United Kingdom and Hong Kong. You can find the full list of our customers here: https://nthinking.net/#customers
About me
Being an advocate for freedom of information since the beginning of the 2000s, I've been involved in various open projects: SourceForge, Wikipedia, Tor, GitHub.
In Hong Kong 2014, Tungfa introduced me to Darkcoin, since then I have been following the incredible development of the DASH ecosystem. I attended the first conference in London this September and I really enjoyed the crowd of people I physically met there. This made me realize like Chuck Williams said on his presentation that my morals and principles can align with the work I can be doing for DASH.
Also on my spare time I like to make YouTube videos, here are some examples that will help you know who I am:
Thank you for reading this description and again the full proposal is here.
I hope you're as interested in this journey as I am.
Gilemon
Our proposal to the network is to increase the influence of DASH by transmitting the live chain from satellites around the world providing free access to the DASH network. It has the potential to open up a world of new opportunities for the use of DASH. There are vast areas of the world where the financial infrastructures are in their infancy, and this proposal is a step forward to create a globally accessible cryptocurrency.
The proposal contains significant research and development efforts that will lead to innovative solution in the distribution of DASH. No matter whether it is using other wireless infrastructure or means of telecommunication, the work involved in this proposal is a leap forward in reducing the cost of transmitting DASH chain data all over the world.
This demonstration provides 12 months broadcasting at 1024 kbps over Asia (equal to 105 GO per month). You can find the fully detailed pdf version of this proposal here:
http://nthinking.net/vrak/dash/proposals/Dash_Satellites_Demonstration_Proposal-v1.21.pdf
And the pre-proposal discussion on the forum is here:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/streaming-the-dash-blockchain-to-the-whole-planet-from-geosynchronous-satellites.17279/
DASH long-term benefits
- Transmitting the live DASH chain from satellites all over the globe
- Providing free access to the DASH network
- Serving potential DASH users all over the world in places beyond the reach of the usual internet
- Enable off-grid DASH applications (outdoor events, Air-gap, ATM, crypto-communities)
- Increasing network resiliency in case of localized catastrophic events (disaster, war, censorship)
- DASH leading Research and Development in Telecommunication Infrastructure founded by the governance
- Public Relations and Marketing benefits from Media exposure
- Countering political intervention
- Countless future applications that yet to be discovered (see some examples in Appendix D in the full proposal)
Who are we
nThinking has extensive experience dealing with engineering projects and corporations. We currently work in railway, logistics and telecom industries. We would be very interested to work on such project.
Founded in 2007, nThinking is headquartered in Hong Kong. Our team of 5 engineers traverse the globe, with local presence in France, the United Kingdom and Hong Kong. You can find the full list of our customers here: https://nthinking.net/#customers
About me
Being an advocate for freedom of information since the beginning of the 2000s, I've been involved in various open projects: SourceForge, Wikipedia, Tor, GitHub.
In Hong Kong 2014, Tungfa introduced me to Darkcoin, since then I have been following the incredible development of the DASH ecosystem. I attended the first conference in London this September and I really enjoyed the crowd of people I physically met there. This made me realize like Chuck Williams said on his presentation that my morals and principles can align with the work I can be doing for DASH.
Also on my spare time I like to make YouTube videos, here are some examples that will help you know who I am:
Thank you for reading this description and again the full proposal is here.
I hope you're as interested in this journey as I am.
Gilemon
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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?
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Even then it would be a stretch but it would have an even chance of passing. My guess is that the vote tally would have been reversed.
A 12 month proposal will not likely pass, nor should it.
This is a good technology demo project, much better than the guy with MNO buddies and a plane or the edibles people who want their whole trip sponsored.
People like you are a credit to the ecosystem, but this project has paid the price for lack of research. I truly wanted to vote yes but was forced to abstain. I really hope you resubmit, you will have my votes to begin with.
Wixam
Interestingly, it's possible that the price of dash would scale with the bandwidth requirements here. That would be an interesting thing to track.
Also, I'm glad you're planning ahead for the 300MB blocks in your pdf. I didn't know satellite speeds could accommodate that kind of bandwidth.
Chuck's $0.02.
If you push your logic, you could also argue that if anybody needs to connect remotely and download the whole chain, he could be using a bidirectional broadband Internet satellite plan. Again, they are not cheap for an average consumer and they come with complicated binding contracts, KYC, data caps, FUPs, expensive proprietary terminal, etc.
To make an analogy with the entertainment industry, it would be like advising someone who have little access to Internet but who still want to see some HD movies, to get an Internet Satellite plan for Netflix. He would kill his data cap in an hour. That’s the reason why he would rather have an HDTV satellite subscriptions with tones of channels.
The good news it the chain is synchronized, so it is the main financial advantage of this proposal, to mutualize the expense of a broadcast and allow anyone to get the expensive download link for free everywhere on ground, for not so much more than a single broadband internet satellite plan.
Also, I’d like to reiterate that it’s very doable, in a second phase, to have a bidirectional connection that would allow sending transactions from the satellite dish without any significant increase in the lease price (see details in my answers to @moonknight and @A_node_to_a_Master below).
A critic coming a lot, is that this is a waste of money as it will not be used. I’ll not go again over the examples in the appendix of the proposal; some are indeed far-fetched, but please do the exercise of going back in time when there was no Internet access available to the common people and imagine what kind of use cases we could have been thinking about. As you all know, the first civilians who used it were a bunch of techies reaching out to each other’s. Who could have guess that 30 years later, we would have been using it for crypto currency applications?
Going back to earth, we are getting in touch with the local community in countries having economic instability. Internet penetration is a key metric to consider when starting a project there. The applications in places beyond the reach of the usual internet, that this proposal enables, are definitely something they are willing to explore further.
I’ve been following your proposal for the past days. Witnessing such a struggle to defend your project, I can’t help writing this… Whatch out it contains vitriol!!!
I’ll stay anonymous – isn’t what DASH is about? – But I go by the name of “hillibilliflayer” at least today.
I’ve been actively participating in Outernet project and crowdfunding.
My background is technical so I deeply understand the whys and wherefores of your proposal, its innovation potential and what it can accomplish in a close future.
I don’t know your team, neither your company. However, your proposal is clear, professional and you defend it with such humility on this forum that you know for sure what you are projecting and fully able to implement it. At least that’s the impression you gave me after exhaustively reading the pdf.
You’re just dealing with the wrong people here… Did they even read it? One says no, the rest follows? Are they like a herd of slugs sharing their slime?
Let’s face it, DASH MNO are a bunch of Quakers and hilly-billies limping arrogantly in the crypto world with their shoes full of dirt and this shitty smell from small US farms.
These are the one saying no to your project! Feed a swine with foie-gras…
Programmer’s team didn’t do much more than replicating BTC code with small adjustments – for pseudo anonymous marketing BS – and have no sense of innovation, perspicacity, vision of the future of cryptoz. They’re just busy moving air around and waiting to see what BTC will do to follow… Herd of slugs I’m telling you…
DASH community just sees DASH as lottery ticket that made them “cheaply” rich… Just one more way of speculating, could have been gold, could have been Monsanto stock…
Crypto are something else! You’re putting it in front of their face and they can see. Too much c@ke? Too many h&&kers? Too much boredom in the biased value of their money?
I let you conclude…
Open up the windows DASH!!! Start smelling rotten inside your community… Continue funding T-shirts and credit card projects. You’ll give other cryptos a great future.
Don’t give up, find another community.
Its the burden of the proposal owner to show the community the pertinence of his project. Gilemon have been very professional and open to commentary about his proposal. Theres still time for him to convince the community that his project add value to the network. What you did is just egocentrical and childish. For your own sake stay anonymous because your reputation will be forever tarnished by this hatefull rant.
I think the technical difficulties that Dash on-chain route will bring to this budget proposal, the very limited users that this budget proposal can target
and the 12 month period that is included in this budget proposal, are currently my main reasons to vote no.
I hope you will still have time to read this.
Would you vote yes if the lease is reduced to 6 months and with 3 x 163 DASH payments under escrow arrangement (total 489 DASH)?
In the end it's the same thing Blockstream did and that's the reason i vote no.
(note: i would be interested in off-grid DASH applications)
To go further than the GPS analogy, please consider that ARPA was launched as a reaction of Sputnik success. You could argue that this is past and that space telecommunication does not matter anymore, but then why are all these giant consortium (Airbus, Qualcomm, Virgin, Coca-Cola, Tesla, HSBC…) still investing so much time and money in satellite projects? I just can’t believe that all the past current and future projects involving space just exist for getting media attention.
They are releasing the code necessary for the terminal on GitHub and we are planning to work closely with this. As well as the Outernet project, which is more mature (first public satellite signal in 2014).
We have been testing both ground terminal solutions and yes we are planning to also get closer connection with these two communities; especially Outernet as they have already helped us a lot.
And does this let people broadcast messages through the satellite, or can they only listen to the satellite?
This proposal only allows broadcasting. In order to let people broadcast messages through the satellite (Bidirectional communication), we'll need to lease some additional up-link frequency (see my answer to @A_node_to_a_Master for cost). This would be the next step described as Worldwide deployment in Global Project Roadmap on the pdf version.
Read-only access is already helping a lot with all applications that require to download GB of data-caps Internet access. I personally experienced this when trying to develop on various blockchain applications from home (I have a satellite Internet access). Some people say I should just move somewhere else... well...
For bi-directional communication, we can't propose to implement this as a first step as they is already both technical and management challenges to overcome for this demonstration. We are proposing to move one step at a time as you can't rush the space industry. Also for this next step we'll need approval from the regulatory authority in the teleports countries (ground hub-link station where the servers are). This will be easier to get if we have established trust with a live project.
Was the 12-month period acceptable in the preproposal?
Why isn't there a small demo showing us an MVP first?
An escrow service is a must from this point forward and I don't see one yet.
These are partly my thought at the moment. I might have more later.
A physical demo of satellite broadcasting simply require too much upfront investment for the size of my company. As you can see on the YouTube links, I have tested the terminal solutions from other similar satellite projects (Outernet and Blockstream). Still I’d be happy to a add a visual demo as an extra to the proposal deliverables (at the end of Design milestone). Some short professional animation based on the conceptual graphic of the pdf cover page that would explain how the communication works and can help different people all over the world.
For the 12 months format concern, please see my answer to @ctafti.
Also, sorry to hear that you feel this is too early. I was in touch with @tungfa and I decided that this project needed to get started to cope with the inertia.
Additionally I'm discussing with @coingun for escrowing the funds.
This helpful discussion on the forum led me to propose a larger bandwidth than the assumed 64kbps. At current market price, the revised bandwidth is 10x larger (512kbps) for 10 DASH per month with a third of the world coverage.
Going global by adding two more geostationary satellites would push the cost per month to 30 DASH. Adding bidirectional communication with a 64/128kbps would only add 30% increase to the total cost. With such an infrastructure in place all the limitations raised by UdjinM6 and codablock are addressed.
If you shorten the time span for the proposal to three months I would consider it.
I'm confident the project can reach completion with successful Demonstration & Marketing Milestones in 6 months. There is a lot of inertia working with communications satellite operators, hardware providers and media agencies. That’s the reason why I have decided to add 6 more months of broadcasting. This will allow more room to interconnect all the relevant parties, especially for interfacing with other projects like DASH Meetups and integration in countries having economic instability.
After the first 6 months and the early demonstration phase, you will be able to decide if you want to go for Worldwide deployment, by adding two more satellites to cover the remaining 2/3 of the world; especially Africa. You can read my answer to @A_node_to_a_Master to have a figure of the costs involved.